Yep... And the fact that Democrats embraced Bush and his ideas should have been a WARNING SIGN to everyone...

Michale.....

Ah, but you're forgetting who was REALLY pushing the first bailouts -- George W. Bush. I believe he is a Republican, no?

Michale (2) -

We interrupt these comments for a special weather news bulletin from Hades. "Temperatures dropped precipitously this week and as you can see behind me, snow covers what used to be the Lake of Fire. That's right, we can now honestly report that Hell has officially frozen over."

Heh heh. Never thought I'd see the day when I agreed with Michelle Malkin over ANYthing. If she told me the sky was blue, I'd look out the window to check before believing her. But I have to admit, that was a pretty well-balanced rant, heaping scorn on both sides of the aisle. As was mine.

Cold day in Hell indeed...

LewDan (1) -

No, I'm not arguing that nothing should have been done. I'm arguing that the Dems in Congress should have taken a few more days, and beefed up their own oversight powers when forking over the $700b. You and I are free to be outraged at this point, but anyone who voted for it is not. At least, not in my book. Case in point: they DID put minimal oversight into the bill. Then they didn't even choose who would be in the oversight group for something like three months (these are Dems we're talking about). Meaning they bear one heck of a lot of the blame, here. And both Dodd and Geithner and Obama bear some blame for putting out what they thought would be "minimally sufficient" caps on executive pay, while knowing full well they weren't addressing the problem at all.

"Blarney!" in other words, to the whole lot of them.

LewDan (2) -

The thing that was terrifying in the midst of the last few weeks was little noticed -- China made some quiet news by telling America to get its financial act together. This could be the first in a very disturbing trend of statements that has wide-ranging repercussions in the future.

- CW

I grant you that all those bad things may have happened, had nothing been done..

But I point out that, to a certain extent, all those things ARE happening now... It's hard to appreciate all the alleged bad things that could have happened when the alternative is all the bad things that ARE happening..

It seems that the Obama administration is being hoisted by their own petard. They are bringing about the very events they have sought to prevent.

The concept of doing nothing is epitomized in the current AIG fiasco and Auto Industry..

If AIG had been allowed to go under, the Obama administration would be facing this current Bonus crisis. But they are and the casualty may be the new SecTreas and AIG will probably STILL go under..

I argued for letting the Auto Industry fail. Once again, James T Kirk lends the wisdom, "LET them die".. My prediction was pathetic....er... prophetic :D. They took the tens of billions and then, a couple months later, need more... Had the administration assumed the more logical course a couple months ago, we would be 30+ billion dollars richer and a couple months further along in creating a VIABLE auto industry..

I am not an economist. No, really, I'm not... But when my mommy and daddy tried to instill fiscal responsibility in me, they gave me one piece of advice that I remember to this day. When you are in a financial hole, the VERY first thing one must do is STOP DIGGING...

The Obama administration has not only forgot that wise piece of advice, they have actually spent MORE money on tractors and backhoes to make the digging EASIER and more expensive..

"I'm trying to charter a spaceship!! Where is the logic in offering me a ride home!??"
-Dr Leonard McCoy, STAR TREK III, The Search For Spock

Michale.....

Michale,

Dodd modified his amendment prohibiting executive bonuses at Treasury's request. Seems they'd concerns over litigation -- I know you don't agree, but seems reasonable to me.

We're trying to convince everyone to "move along -- nothing to see here..." Massive and prolonged litigation would hardly be helpful.

-- Lew

You really believe nothing was a viable option? And "while doing nothing would have caused a catastrophic implosion of the economy, it would have been short-lived?" That having largely created a global economic crises we could just sit on our hands and do nothing?

That with our global reputation already in tatters, China, for example, would calmly accept the loss of billions and our apparent indifference, and continue to loan us money? That Britain, Japan, and all the rest could just find their own way to survive the collapse while we whistle in the wind and the dollar would remain sound?

Granted, it WOULD'VE solved the deficit problem. You can't run a deficit when no one will lend you money. Businesses all over America are failing because their credit sources have dried up. But that couldn't happen to America could it? And being forced to go from trillion dollar deficits to a balanced budget in the middle of a recession/depression couldn't possibly make things worse either, could it?

Why, that would've also answered the question of how to craft a stimulus! We'd be broke, so of course we wouldn't even be considering a stimulus. And with our failing infrastructure and our largest economic sector, the banking/finance industry, in tatters, the road to recovery would certainly be brief.

Our dollar wouldn't collapse would it? WE may be outraged at Wall Street for causing the collapse and their apparent indifference to the damage they've done US but the rest of the world would never feel that way about America, now would they? Because they LOVE US. And THEY are stupid! Beside we can always survive with the industrial base we don't have anymore! Just like WWII!

And, of course, we don't KNOW bad things would have happened. No one can PROVE the stimulus was necessary. And nothing, apparently, says "fiscal conservative" and "financial responsibility" like a willingness to gamble with the entire economy! Right?

That's the spirit that got America where it is today! --? Wait a minute, -- that IS the spirit that got us where we are today! And the rest of us are trying to repair the damage.

Truer words were never spoken...

except for all the alternatives.

I disagree.. As I said at the time, doing nothing was probably the BEST course of action to take..

The reasoning being that, while doing nothing would have caused a catastrophic implosion of the economy, it would have been short-lived and the journey to recovery would have started MUCH sooner..

By delaying the inevitable, the economic crisis lasts 3 times longer and recovery takes a lot longer, if it ever comes at all..

They system is flawed and cannot be fixed with band-aids.

To paraphrase James T Kirk, "Let It Die!"

Only then can a truly viable economy be created.

and there is nothing "faux" about the outrage.

If you are referring to the Michelle Matlin article I posted, she was referring to the Faux outrage being displayed by the DC politicians who enabled and handed billions to AIG on a silver platter and then turn around and express shock and dismay for public consumption.

Do you know who the biggest recipients of AIG donations were??

Senators Dodd and Obama...

Did you know that Dodd secretly slipped in a claus for AIG in the TARP bailout that PROTECTED AIG's bonuses (bonusii?? bonusium??)???

I bet ya didn't... :D

Michale.....

Congressional Democrats rushing to give a failed president, famous for universal incompetence, $700bn to do with as he pleased, without strings, two months before their own party takes control of the Presidency, was clearly the most monumentally stupid government action possible -- except for all the alternatives.

The TARP bailout was never really expected to solve any problems. Would've been nice, but let's be honest. The bailout's purpose was to prevent a panic, bank runs, the Great Depression -- to buy time.

Congressional debates, veto battles, and committee hearings would have been, not just counterproductive, but futile. You can disagree on the wisdom and need to buy time, but if you're tying to buy time there can be no serious disagreement on the need to act immediately -- and there wasn't.

Pretending otherwise is historical revisionism at warp speed! If you want to argue, as some do, that government should have done nothing -- just let banks fail -- That, at least is an intellectually honest argument. (OK, I'm being generous with the intellectual part, but its certainly more honest than the current discussions.)

There's been time, however, to begin actually addressing underlying problems -- and there is nothing "faux" about the outrage. Just because we handed over our money at gun point is no reason we shouldn't now go after the perpetrators -- or be outraged.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03182009/news/columnists/spare_us_your_fake_fury__dc_hypocrites_160098.htm

Michale.....

But the fault lies entirely with Congress, with equal blame going to both Republicans and the Democrats who were in charge

Sorry, CW but this is not accurate..

At the very beginning of the bail-out frenzy, it was the majority of Democrats who were pushing for the Wall Street bail out.. Every Republican and quite a few Democrats were against it until they were bribed. Repubs with juicy new Patriot Act measure and the reluctant Dems, with lots and lots o pork..

This was followed up by the great Auto Bailout, again pushed by Democrats.. A bailout, I might add, that I stated at the time would do absolutely ZERO good and would see Auto Companies coming back to suck at the taxpayer tit in 2-3 months time.

Did I call it or what!??

Don't get me wrong. You know that I enjoy a bit o bi-partisan bashing as much as you do..

But in this case, the majority of the blame lies with the Democrats..

Which isn't to say that the GOP is blameless.. They allowed themselves to be bought, so they DO share a measure of the blame..

Michale.....

Is trom an t-ualach an leisce.
"Laziness is a heavy burden."

No, wait, that's not it...

Pionta Guinness, le do thoil.
"A pint of Guinness, please."

That's not quite it either.

An bhfuil tú ar meisce fós?
"Are you drunk yet?"

No, that can't be it!

Ná glac pioc comhairle gan comhairle ban.
"Never take advice without a woman's guidance."

Ahh... THAT's what I was trying to say.

As the Irish say: May the road rise to meet you, may the wind always be at your back. May your soul be in Heaven a half an hour before the Devil knows you're dead.

:-)

-CW

Thinking about the speed with which the Dems and Reps joined in a bipartisan chorus of Shock and Awe over the Bonus Babies (so as not to be left behind) puts me in mind of another proverb:

Nuair a chacann gé cacann siad go léir.

Let one goose shit and they're all at it.

Regulation, oversight, checks & balances - these are the things Congress is responsible for and they have not been doing their job. The larger the $ amount being requested the more likely Congress will fall over themselvs to give it to you but if you ask for anything less than a million they are calling it pork and asking all of the questions they should have asked the highrollers.

...Stan