"Mr President. All the gold that America had possessed has been stolen."

:D

Michale.....

Purely depends on the job he works. If it is a job that will not be impacted by an economic down turn, then he should stay at about the same level, maybe even benefit from massive sales on goods. He won't be able to get a car loan or borrow off his mortgage. On the other hand, if he looses his job, finding another one in the short term could be very difficult. That assumes inflation is not a problem. Many think inflation will be more of a problem with a bailout than without it, but in the end who knows?

On another note: those with really good credit could do quite well once the economy bottoms out. Credit will be very hard to get and those who can get it will have an advantage in starting/upgrading businesses.

It's a massive rule/environment change. Those who adapt will thrive, those who can't will fail. It also opens up opportunity for those willing to take risk. It will be a few hard years before it gets better though...

Thanx for the response.

I have been asking this question for days now. You are the first to respond..

It sounds like things are as I figured.. Those who stand to lose the most are those who made their living, made their savings or got obscenely rich by gaming the system..

Sorry, I just can't seem to muster up much sympathy for those people. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. You dance with the devil, you're liable to get burned, etc etc etc..

Let me ask you something, since you seem to know what's what...

What about the guy who barely makes enough to pay his mortgage, lives from paycheck to paycheck and has absolutely NO savings..

How will a complete economic collapse affect him??

Thanx again for the reply..

Michale....

Many 401K's and general investment funds invested heavily in these banks/investment vehicles because it was thought to be safe. So, the just about to retire baby boomers will loose some percentage of there retirement. That's collectively a huge amount of money that would otherwise trickle in to the economy. Probably much greater than the total cost of the bailout. Those who lost a hefty percentage might end up on government programs in the end costing us even more.

We are also the starting domino. We fall and it could quickly become world wide. European banks are already becoming shaky will start failing/being bailed out by their respective governments. A world wide collapse means less exports, less jobs etc.

Locally, the entire credit market freezes up. Small business has a hard time getting loans. People have a hard time getting loans for larger ticket items like cars and homes. A serious reduction in car sales due to lack of loans could impact that industry. I personally doubt this will last long as banks have to do something with deposits to make money.

As one politician stated: We can punish wall street or stabilize the economy but not both.

At least that’s as far as I have been able to glean from the press.

http://steveyoungonpolitics.com/you-can-never-underestimate-palin/

Michale.....

Yea, but will it honestly be change for the better??

I USED to think so...

Now, I am not so sure....

As to the economy??

Stocks fell dramatically..

Dollar is STRONGER in Europe..

Oil has fallen below $95..

Would someone please point out to me the BAD things about an economic collapse??

Michale.....

It's OK if Senator Obama is only a virtual change candidate, just so long as enough people see him as the change candidate.

The real agent for change in this election cycle has always been Senator Biden anyway.

With Obama-Biden, we're gonna get change, one way or t'other.

So, someone correct me if I am wrong..

As I see, if the bail out does NOT go thru, the only people who will be hurt by this are either people who have gotten rich off the system or who have made a living gaming the system...

This being the case, I say let the system crash... Better the system crashes now so that it can be built up and fixed with a BETTER system (short and sweet) rather than put a band-aid on it now and let people continue to game it and get rich off of it and cause more problems..

Let it implode, pick up the pieces and do better next time...

Michale.....

228 NAY 205 YEA

Michale.....

Might be a week late, but didn't see this in the MSM.

One of the best speeches by a Democrat in a while. Would like to nominate Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio for the MIDOTW award.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds

I think she sums up how a lot of people feel about this mess.

- David

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/jpinkerton_0926-2/

Michale.....

If you like living in a hole, then McCain/Palin is your ticket. If, however, you would like to see the sunshine again, then you need to pull the lever for Obama/Biden.

I used to believe that as well..

But seeing Obama in action the last few weeks makes me wonder if this is truly the case.. Obama has come across lately as nothing but a cynical and run-o-the-mill politician. He doesn't appear to be the CHANGE candidate anymore..

And, if we are going to be "same ol same ol" politics-wise, then it seems that McCain's Foreign Policy and National Security credentials trumps ANYTHING Obama brings to the table..

@CW

But the "budget" was the final straw for me with Pelosi, too. As of now, I would consider supporting someone challenging her as well.

Please don't say Cindy Sheehan!! Please don't say Cindy Sheehan!! :D

You dare to quote Drudge here? Heh.

Yea, I know, I know.. I am kinda disappointed in myself. You know how I feel about polls and then I go ahead and quote one..

But hay, everyone who is anyone reads Drudge.. Even Al Gore!! :D (There's a pic out there that proves it, but I can't find it. :( )

But yer right on the debates.. The general consensus on this last one seems to be that there was no shining moment for either candidate and no one had their mind changed...

Regarding the bail out...

Why not let the banks fail??

As parents, we try to instill a sense of responsibility in our children.

One way parents do this is by forcing our children to accept the consequences of their actions.

In this case, Wall Street and the Financial institutions are the "children" and the Government and American Public are the "Parents".

How will the "children" learn not to make the same mistakes if the evade the responsibility and consequences of those mistakes??

I know, it will be hard on the "parents" at first. But it will be harder, further on down the road when the "children" make the same mistakes.

From what I have read (anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong) the choice is that we let Wall Street and the Banks fail and there is a horrendous short term collapse. Or, we bail out the naughty children and there is a long-term collapse.

To me, the choice is clear.. However, I don't really have a dog in the fight. To someone who stands to lose thousands or more (retirement savings, etc etc) I can see how they might feel differently.

It seems to me that the Democrats and Bush are simply wrong in their plan. No big surprise there. But the fact that the GOP is on the RIGHT side here??

WOW... Who woulda thunked it, eh??

Interesting commentary here for those who want to dare FOX NEWS

Michale.....

Michale -

In general, I have been more supportive of Pelosi, since it's not her fault when things pass the House and die in the Senate. It's not Reid's fault either, but there are plenty of other reasons why I've been calling for Reid's replacement for almost a year now. The leadership elections happen sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas, so we'll see if either of them is challenged this year. I could fully support many many other choices for Reid's job (Feingold, Clinton, etc.). But the "budget" was the final straw for me with Pelosi, too. As of now, I would consider supporting someone challenging her as well.

Elizabeth -

Sorry for the lack of liveblog, it was all I could do to get the review out as fast as I did! Even then, it was pretty late for eastern parts of the country.

I also look forward to Gwen Ifill -- I used to cringe when she was on TV, but she's gotten better and better in the past few years, and I think her questioning style is a lot closer to what average people would ask than just about anyone these days, so I have gained a lot of respect for her.

Michale -

You dare to quote Drudge here? Heh. That was funny. I still think it's kind of ridiculous to even talk about who "won" or "lost" a debate, since it's all so subjective. That's just my personal opinion. I've seen many many debates where the pundits declared who "won" but the public thought different. We'll see in the polls in the next week or so who really "won."

loslobo -

That's an interesting note to the campaign. The more I think about it, the more I think Obama was just biding his time in this debate, and that he'll be sharper in the next two. If there's one thing his campaign knows how to do, it's to manage the pace of the campaign. Remember how we were all a bit disappointed with the first day of the convention? And how he closed with a bang? So we'll see if the next two debates get a bit sharper.

As for your last comment, you know what P.T. Barnum said about the American public...

BashiBazouk -

That is an excellent point. "Serious DC pundits" scoff at such things, but becoming the punchline of late night jokes can be a devastating thing for a politician. Here's a thought -- Obama wins this thing... in ten years, what will be the Sarah Palin quote everyone remembers? It'll be something she never actually said (like Gore's "I invented the internet") -- it'll be Tina Fey's:

"I can see Russia from my house!"

I betcha anything... unless, of course, it will be the expression "moose poop," which everyone will of course also remember. Ahem.

Good point about the straightman ticket, too.

I think McCain's got one chance at stanching the bleeding -- go on Letterman Monday or Tuesday night, take your lumps, do some self-depreciating humor (McCain's actually not bad at this), and move on. Dave will respect you, and he may still make jokes about you, but he'll stop absolutely savaging you...

Remember, an astonishing amount of people get ALL their political news from the late-night clowns. And some of them vote.

-CW

The Democratic ticket has some resistance, as both Obama and Biden work best as the straight man, and two straight men do not, a comedy sketch, make.

Hey, just like to know if any of your readers actually campain for Obama, or just like to hear themselves talk. This is what I sent to the campain Fri....

Barack

I have been going door to door, and I am amazed at how many people are misinformed about everything. I come from a town that BEGGED GW to come in 2004 (and he did), so I knew it was going to be a battle. But they spew the Repug lines hook, line and sinker. First they still think Iran was responsible for 9/11, never heard that America tortures. Think you are going to kill small business. You are a Muslim. Michelle is a racist. You support partial-birth abortions even killing the surviving baby. (Yes, I saw the attack add and sent them a Huff post about it). I know you think these are debunked issues but here in red-neck heaven they believe everything Rush or Billo says. Please don’t assume the electorate has been paying attention. Any ads here must first dispel the myths.

As far as the debate went, and I know your already getting this, but the first words out of your mouth CAN’T be “I agree with you John”. You never mentioned the flip-flops including TORTURE. And for the life of me I don’t understand why when McCain mentions people in prison and you say nothing about the Keating Five. I respect you immensely, but please grow a pair. Where is the emotion? The Repugs committed the most HEINOUS of all WAR CRIMES and you are going to let that slide? If you want to channel the Bush hatred, tell the country that you will hold him and everyone in his administration accountable for the many CRIMES against this country.

I hope your staff disseminates this to you. Thanks

Although college students are more receptive to Obama's message, they are as much ignorant on the issues. I really hope this little po-dunk town is an anomaly, but I fear the country truly is fat and stupid.

It seems to me that all of this extraneous stuff (who won the debate, will there be a VP debate, who made the gaffe of the day...blah, blah, blah) is making us take our eyes off the ball.

There is only one question that needs to be asked and answered - do you want to dig the hole that we find ourselves in deeper OR do you want to start climbing out...take your pick.

If you like living in a hole, then McCain/Palin is your ticket. If, however, you would like to see the sunshine again, then you need to pull the lever for Obama/Biden.

It really is as simple as that.

CW thanx for the info.. I seem to recall that Reid & Pelosi are not your two favorite Democrats.. :D

As far as the Debate goes??

I have devised a nearly fool proof system to determine what run of the mill political pundits REALLY think about winners and losers in debates...

If a pundit is equivocating about their candidates performance, as in , "eh, he/she held their own" or "there were some good points and bad points" or such, then said pundit REALLY thinks that said candidate definitely lost the debate...

If a pundit is overwhelming in their praise of their candidate, then said pundit thinks that said candidate won the debate..

This is borne out by the descriptions I read this morning of Obama's performance in the debates. It was all, "He did OK." and "He definitely held his own" and such...

The votes???

According to Drudge, 68% think McCain won and 30% think that Obama won...

I know, I know... Take anything said by anyone with a grain of salt..

I'm just sayin'... :D

Michale.....

Comments???

Michale.....

Pelosi is actually tied for the #3 MIDOTW spot, with Hillary Clinton. Missed that when I was typing the above comment, sorry.

-CW

I really gotta get some sort of graphic up to show the hall of fame/shame on these people...

Since you asked:

Reid
MDDOTW - 5 (tied for most ever with Jay Rockefeller IV)
MIDOTW - 1

Pelosi
MDDOTW - 2
MIDOTW - 4 (puts her in #3 spot, behind Dodd (5) and Obama (6))

These numbers include this week's awards.

-CW

I would just add one point about where I thought Senator Obama failed to grab the opportunity to expose Senator McCain as being weak on foreign policy. That came when the discussion turned to the "success of the surge" in Iraq.

But, that's OK...that issue will be dealt with and put to bed next week - I can hardly wait!

I gotta tell ya, though, you're missing a pretty good debate...kudos to Jim Lehrer.

In the middle of Stargate:ATLANTIS!!!??? Arrrggghhhh!!!! :D

Michale.....

You should update your HP post and invite everyone to a little live debate blog over here while you're working on your FTPs...I'm in the mood for a party!

Michale.....