Comments on: Friday Talking Points [43] -- And The Gold Medal For Snarkiness Goes To... http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/ Reality-based political commentary Fri, 08 May 2026 01:45:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3424 Elizabeth Miller Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:27:34 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3424 If I may throw something else into the mix on Georgia-Russia relations and the consequences for the rest of the planet... This entire episode has crystallized the extreme and dangerous incompetence of the current US administration and the near complete forfeit of America's global leadership position. For me, the downward spiral of the US, over the course of the last eight years, has been very hard to watch. If I may throw something else into the mix on Georgia-Russia relations and the consequences for the rest of the planet...

This entire episode has crystallized the extreme and dangerous incompetence of the current US administration and the near complete forfeit of America's global leadership position.

For me, the downward spiral of the US, over the course of the last eight years, has been very hard to watch.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3423 Michale Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:30:37 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3423 Ahhh Grenada... The difference between Georgia & Grenada is that, on Grenada there were ACTUALLY innocent US civilians on the island. Whereas, in Georgia, there we "pretend" Russian citizens that were actually Georgians that had forced upon them Russian passports.. Regardless of that, I think we all can agree that any claim to legitimacy the Russians may have had vanished when they started bombing Georgian civilian infrastructure and had Russian snipers shooting at reporters. @CW <I>I don't know what this piece of the puzzle means, myself, but just thought I'd point it out to see how it fit into your theories.</I> Which would seem to argue AGAINST the conventional "wisdom" on the Left that this was all planned by the Bush administration or the McCain campaign. I also laugh at the claim that the US can't do anything about it. First off, this isn't the US's fight. It's a NATO fight. It's NATO's arse that is on the block and you can bet that NATO will respond if Russia doesn't leave Georgia. While it's likely that NATO will bring Georgia into the group, that's really not necessary, considering the importance of what's in Georgia. NATO can claim self-defense even without bringing Georgia into NATO. Secondly, the idea that the US is toothless is laughable. The ONLY area where the US is thin, as far as combat forces go, is boots on the ground. But, hopefully, Russia will recognize that they need to abide by their agreement and leave Georgia. However, from latest reports, it doesn't look good. Michale..... Ahhh Grenada...

The difference between Georgia & Grenada is that, on Grenada there were ACTUALLY innocent US civilians on the island.

Whereas, in Georgia, there we "pretend" Russian citizens that were actually Georgians that had forced upon them Russian passports..

Regardless of that, I think we all can agree that any claim to legitimacy the Russians may have had vanished when they started bombing Georgian civilian infrastructure and had Russian snipers shooting at reporters.

@CW

I don't know what this piece of the puzzle means, myself, but just thought I'd point it out to see how it fit into your theories.

Which would seem to argue AGAINST the conventional "wisdom" on the Left that this was all planned by the Bush administration or the McCain campaign.

I also laugh at the claim that the US can't do anything about it.

First off, this isn't the US's fight. It's a NATO fight. It's NATO's arse that is on the block and you can bet that NATO will respond if Russia doesn't leave Georgia. While it's likely that NATO will bring Georgia into the group, that's really not necessary, considering the importance of what's in Georgia. NATO can claim self-defense even without bringing Georgia into NATO.

Secondly, the idea that the US is toothless is laughable. The ONLY area where the US is thin, as far as combat forces go, is boots on the ground.

But, hopefully, Russia will recognize that they need to abide by their agreement and leave Georgia.

However, from latest reports, it doesn't look good.

Michale.....

]]> By: BLaws http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3421 BLaws Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:11:56 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3421 @Michale Well, to name one... Grenada From Wikipedia: <i>By a vote of 122 in favor to 9 ( Antigua and Barbuda, Barbados, Dominica, El Salvador, Israel, Jamaica, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and the United States) with 27 abstentions, the United Nations General Assembly adopted General Assembly resolution 38/7 which "deeply deplores the armed intervention in Grenada, which constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of that State".[4] Grenada voted in favor of the resolution. The Government of China termed the United States intervention an outright act of hegemonism. The USSR Government observed that Grenada had for a long time been the object of United States threats, that the invasion violated international law, and that no small nation not to the liking of the United States would find itself safe if the aggression against Grenada was not rebuffed. The governments of some countries stated that the United States intervention was a return to the era of barbarism. The governments of other countries said the United States by its invasion had violated several treaties and conventions to which it was a party. After the invasion, Prime Minister Thatcher wrote to President Reagan: This action will be seen as intervention by a Western country in the internal affairs of a small independent nation, however unattractive its regime.</i> @Michale

Well, to name one... Grenada

From Wikipedia:

By a vote of 122 in favor to 9 ( Antigua and Barbuda, Barbados, Dominica, El Salvador, Israel, Jamaica, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and the United States) with 27 abstentions, the United Nations General Assembly adopted General Assembly resolution 38/7 which "deeply deplores the armed intervention in Grenada, which constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of that State".[4] Grenada voted in favor of the resolution. The Government of China termed the United States intervention an outright act of hegemonism. The USSR Government observed that Grenada had for a long time been the object of United States threats, that the invasion violated international law, and that no small nation not to the liking of the United States would find itself safe if the aggression against Grenada was not rebuffed. The governments of some countries stated that the United States intervention was a return to the era of barbarism. The governments of other countries said the United States by its invasion had violated several treaties and conventions to which it was a party.

After the invasion, Prime Minister Thatcher wrote to President Reagan:

This action will be seen as intervention by a Western country in the internal affairs of a small independent nation, however unattractive its regime.

]]> By: Chris Weigant http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3418 Chris Weigant Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:08:02 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3418 Just to toss something out here... Once again, it seems the CIA was caught unawares by the whole Georgian situation. US spy satellites are apparently all in use in Iraq/Afghanistan and surrounding areas, and we didn't even notice the Russkies building up troops on the border. I don't know what this piece of the puzzle means, myself, but just thought I'd point it out to see how it fit into your theories. -CW Just to toss something out here...

Once again, it seems the CIA was caught unawares by the whole Georgian situation. US spy satellites are apparently all in use in Iraq/Afghanistan and surrounding areas, and we didn't even notice the Russkies building up troops on the border.

I don't know what this piece of the puzzle means, myself, but just thought I'd point it out to see how it fit into your theories.

-CW

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3414 Michale Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:18:14 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3414 Oh, yes.. There was that Clinton foray into Bosnia... Granted.. Michale..... Oh, yes..

There was that Clinton foray into Bosnia... Granted..

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3413 Michale Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:17:49 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3413 @BLaws None that come to mind... You??? Michale..... @BLaws

None that come to mind...

You???

Michale.....

]]> By: BLaws http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3412 BLaws Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:16:08 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3412 Yeah, cause we've never invaded a country to stop an internal matter. Yeah, cause we've never invaded a country to stop an internal matter.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3411 Michale Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:45:59 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3411 <I>You can read what I mean here: Joe Lauria posted at Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/did-mccain-help-bait-russ_b_119395.html</I> And you can read my OH SO eloquent responses in that same thread... :D The simple fact is, Georgia was handling an internal matter. Russia invaded... Think of it as if the US sent troops into TEXAS to quell a rebellion and Mexico invaded the US over it. Granted, it's highly unlikely that anyone would CARE if Texas went to Mexico.. But you get the idea.. :D Michale.... You can read what I mean here:

Joe Lauria posted at Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/did-mccain-help-bait-russ_b_119395.html

And you can read my OH SO eloquent responses in that same thread... :D

The simple fact is, Georgia was handling an internal matter. Russia invaded...

Think of it as if the US sent troops into TEXAS to quell a rebellion and Mexico invaded the US over it.

Granted, it's highly unlikely that anyone would CARE if Texas went to Mexico.. But you get the idea.. :D

Michale....

]]> By: BLaws http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3409 BLaws Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:56:52 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3409 There is also the idea that Russia wasn't played by BushCo, but were in fact part of ploy. They most likely will get South Ossetia and the other area's independance or integration back into Russia. They get to stomp on Georgia. Putin gets to bash the US and Georgia gaining favor with Russian citizens. BushCo gets a possible way to keep their war profiteering racket going. Oh... and 4 years to bury any evidence left that could send them all to jail. There is also the idea that Russia wasn't played by BushCo, but were in fact part of ploy. They most likely will get South Ossetia and the other area's independance or integration back into Russia. They get to stomp on Georgia. Putin gets to bash the US and Georgia gaining favor with Russian citizens.

BushCo gets a possible way to keep their war profiteering racket going. Oh... and 4 years to bury any evidence left that could send them all to jail.

]]> By: BLaws http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3408 BLaws Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:52:32 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3408 @Michale <i>I have no doubt that Russia planned this. Russia got the South Ossetians to act out a little, then pull back and talk "peace", then shell some villages in Georgia to really piss off the Georgians which responded as Russia hoped they would, to allow Russia the excuse needed… </i> And I have little doubt that Bush/Cheney and people behind McCain did their part in this little ploy to bring National Security to the nations attention right at the very start of the Olympics when tons of people are watching TV. You can read what I mean here: Joe Lauria posted at Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/did-mccain-help-bait-russ_b_119395.html <i>There are a couple of theories. One is Saakashvili was under the mistaken impression the US military, even NATO, would intervene if Russia fought back after Georgia entered the breakaway province of South Ossetia on 7-8 August, devastating Tskhinvali, and according to Moscow, killing a number of Russian peacekeepers. The US stood on the sidelines when Russia indeed punished Georgia. Georgian civilians at first told Western reporters they were angry at America for not coming to their aid. Then several days later many started to blame Saakashvili for creating such a mess. It seems hard to imagine he would have tried to seize South Ossetia if he were not led to believe he had American backing. According to Vitaly Churkin, Russia's UN ambassador, joint US-Georgian military exercises code-named Immediate Response ended just hours before Georgian troops moved into the province. Churkin says the Americans gave Saakashvili a "green light." But there was no immediate response from the United States. It looks like Saakashvili and Russia were both set up. By eliciting a heavy-handed Russian response, American political leaders, and their mouthpieces in the corporate media, can blame Russia and revive misplaced Cold War analogies. They falsely portray Russia as the brutal aggressor, bent on violently overthrowing the Georgian regime, with Ukraine and others to follow. Condoleezza Rice called Russia's intervention the new 1968 Soviet intervention in Czechoslovakia. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Barak Obama's chief foreign policy adviser, compared it to the Soviet invasion of Finland. Right wing radio hosts are rabid about the new Russian "threat." The New York Times writes about Russia's supposed challenge to democracies. Who benefits most from painting this a revival of Soviet-era aggression? John McCain. </i> He posted exactly the doubts I have about this incident. True or not, it's an opinion I and others have. We'll see if the news media pushes to find the truth... whatever it is... or if they'll just go with the story pushed so far without looking deeper to check if it's accurate. @Michale

I have no doubt that Russia planned this. Russia got the South Ossetians to act out a little, then pull back and talk "peace", then shell some villages in Georgia to really piss off the Georgians which responded as Russia hoped they would, to allow Russia the excuse needed…

And I have little doubt that Bush/Cheney and people behind McCain did their part in this little ploy to bring National Security to the nations attention right at the very start of the Olympics when tons of people are watching TV.

You can read what I mean here:

Joe Lauria posted at Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-lauria/did-mccain-help-bait-russ_b_119395.html

There are a couple of theories. One is Saakashvili was under the mistaken impression the US military, even NATO, would intervene if Russia fought back after Georgia entered the breakaway province of South Ossetia on 7-8 August, devastating Tskhinvali, and according to Moscow, killing a number of Russian peacekeepers.

The US stood on the sidelines when Russia indeed punished Georgia. Georgian civilians at first told Western reporters they were angry at America for not coming to their aid. Then several days later many started to blame Saakashvili for creating such a mess.

It seems hard to imagine he would have tried to seize South Ossetia if he were not led to believe he had American backing. According to Vitaly Churkin, Russia's UN ambassador, joint US-Georgian military exercises code-named Immediate Response ended just hours before Georgian troops moved into the province.

Churkin says the Americans gave Saakashvili a "green light." But there was no immediate response from the United States.

It looks like Saakashvili and Russia were both set up.

By eliciting a heavy-handed Russian response, American political leaders, and their mouthpieces in the corporate media, can blame Russia and revive misplaced Cold War analogies. They falsely portray Russia as the brutal aggressor, bent on violently overthrowing the Georgian regime, with Ukraine and others to follow.

Condoleezza Rice called Russia's intervention the new 1968 Soviet intervention in Czechoslovakia. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Barak Obama's chief foreign policy adviser, compared it to the Soviet invasion of Finland. Right wing radio hosts are rabid about the new Russian "threat." The New York Times writes about Russia's supposed challenge to democracies.

Who benefits most from painting this a revival of Soviet-era aggression?

John McCain.

He posted exactly the doubts I have about this incident. True or not, it's an opinion I and others have. We'll see if the news media pushes to find the truth... whatever it is... or if they'll just go with the story pushed so far without looking deeper to check if it's accurate.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3407 Michale Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:51:52 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3407 @Elizabeth How ironic... McCain is lambasted for his connections to Georgia's president and Biden is cheered for his... :D Michale..... @Elizabeth

How ironic...

McCain is lambasted for his connections to Georgia's president and Biden is cheered for his... :D

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3406 Michale Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:48:59 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3406 @BLaws I posted this to the GEORGIA thread below, but since you bring it up.. :D I have no doubt that Russia planned this. Russia got the South Ossetians to act out a little, then pull back and talk "peace", then shell some villages in Georgia to really piss off the Georgians which responded as Russia hoped they would, to allow Russia the excuse needed... Evidence?? The complete preparedness of the Russian 58th Army, down to having dead-lined vehicles repaired or replaced. The prescience of the Russian Navy to sail from the Ukraine, steaming towards Georgia days before the invasion. I have no doubt that Russia orchestrated for two reasons, both of which failed miserably. Michale..... @BLaws

I posted this to the GEORGIA thread below, but since you bring it up.. :D

I have no doubt that Russia planned this. Russia got the South Ossetians to act out a little, then pull back and talk "peace", then shell some villages in Georgia to really piss off the Georgians which responded as Russia hoped they would, to allow Russia the excuse needed...

Evidence?? The complete preparedness of the Russian 58th Army, down to having dead-lined vehicles repaired or replaced. The prescience of the Russian Navy to sail from the Ukraine, steaming towards Georgia days before the invasion.

I have no doubt that Russia orchestrated for two reasons, both of which failed miserably.

Michale.....

]]> By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3405 Elizabeth Miller Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:24:05 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3405 Actually, Michale and BLaws, there is nothing cynical about Senator Biden's trip to Georgia and President Bush had nothing whatsoever to do with orchestrating it. Though I do think that there were not that many in Georgia, or Russia for that matter, who were particularly impressed with the visit by Secretary Rice which may very well have precipitated President Saakashvili's call to Biden. And, there is nothing unusual about Joe Biden being asked by the Georgian President to come and consult about some hot issue or other. Biden is very well respected by leaders the world over and, after all, he is the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committiee which plays an important advise and consent role in implementing US foreign policy. Having said that, I am sure that Biden consulted with Senator Obama about his trip as we are in the midst of a general election campaign - that would only be common courtesy. This highlights, for me, one of the reasons why so many people fail to understand who Biden is and what he is all about. There is not a cynical bone in his body - I would suggest - and what motivates Joe Biden simply cannot be understood through a lens of cynicism. Actually, Michale and BLaws, there is nothing cynical about Senator Biden's trip to Georgia and President Bush had nothing whatsoever to do with orchestrating it. Though I do think that there were not that many in Georgia, or Russia for that matter, who were particularly impressed with the visit by Secretary Rice which may very well have precipitated President Saakashvili's call to Biden.

And, there is nothing unusual about Joe Biden being asked by the Georgian President to come and consult about some hot issue or other. Biden is very well respected by leaders the world over and, after all, he is the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committiee which plays an important advise and consent role in implementing US foreign policy.

Having said that, I am sure that Biden consulted with Senator Obama about his trip as we are in the midst of a general election campaign - that would only be common courtesy.

This highlights, for me, one of the reasons why so many people fail to understand who Biden is and what he is all about. There is not a cynical bone in his body - I would suggest - and what motivates Joe Biden simply cannot be understood through a lens of cynicism.

]]> By: BLaws http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3404 BLaws Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:03:45 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3404 @Michale [i]The cynical one is that Bush has inside intel that Biden is going to be Obama's pick for VP and is being "sent" by Bush (thru encouragement of the Georgia president by Bush) to mess things up for Obama.[/i] Haha... That's about as likely a conspiracy theory as the HuffPo article saying that the Georgia/Russia thing was a set up by the McCain/Bush teams to benefit McCain. But lets assume you are correct, and take that conspiracy even further. :) If so, then that means, by your admission, that Bush would play politics with an issue like this to hurt Obama. If Bush is willing to do that, then he'd be just as willing, in my opinion (and many others), to give Georgia the impression they would back the aggression against South Ossetia knowing this would cause an incident that benefits McCain. I don't find it a coincidence that this happened on the opening day of the Olympics, when a huge part of the country is watching. I find it very interesting that Russia was prepared to move as fast as they did, almost too fast... as if they knew it was coming. Then there was the Fox News interview from an American mother and daughter who were there in S.O. and said the Georgians were at fault and the Russians came in and help them get out of the line of fire, to another city, and on a plane back to the US.... and how quickly Fox News shut down the interview as soon as she blamed Georgia. His excuse was a commercial break and he had no choice... bull. They have complete control of their network, I've seen them, CNN, MSNBC, etc run long and even into other shows if needed. Hopefully we find out the truth, whatever it is. CNN's Rick Sanchez last night actually asked that question... "Who's at fault?" Let's see if they really push the issue and find out the truth, whatever it is. I have a feeling that if Bush/McCain did give Georgia a green light, that the Georgian President might turn on them and spill the beans. That might also be why he asked Biden to go there. If he felt betrayed by Bush/McCain, it might be to his benefit to reveal that. If it was a set up, he would know it would hurt McCain to bring it to light, buying favor with Obama and possibly handing him the election. It would also not displease Russia that Georgia would basically be slapping Bush across the face. Bush isn't going to be around long anyway so Georgia really has no long term benefits to stay allied with him and they know McCain is against Russia, and bought and paid for with Randy S. running things. @Michale

[i]The cynical one is that Bush has inside intel that Biden is going to be Obama's pick for VP and is being "sent" by Bush (thru encouragement of the Georgia president by Bush) to mess things up for Obama.[/i]

Haha... That's about as likely a conspiracy theory as the HuffPo article saying that the Georgia/Russia thing was a set up by the McCain/Bush teams to benefit McCain.

But lets assume you are correct, and take that conspiracy even further. :)

If so, then that means, by your admission, that Bush would play politics with an issue like this to hurt Obama. If Bush is willing to do that, then he'd be just as willing, in my opinion (and many others), to give Georgia the impression they would back the aggression against South Ossetia knowing this would cause an incident that benefits McCain.

I don't find it a coincidence that this happened on the opening day of the Olympics, when a huge part of the country is watching. I find it very interesting that Russia was prepared to move as fast as they did, almost too fast... as if they knew it was coming. Then there was the Fox News interview from an American mother and daughter who were there in S.O. and said the Georgians were at fault and the Russians came in and help them get out of the line of fire, to another city, and on a plane back to the US.... and how quickly Fox News shut down the interview as soon as she blamed Georgia. His excuse was a commercial break and he had no choice... bull. They have complete control of their network, I've seen them, CNN, MSNBC, etc run long and even into other shows if needed.

Hopefully we find out the truth, whatever it is. CNN's Rick Sanchez last night actually asked that question... "Who's at fault?" Let's see if they really push the issue and find out the truth, whatever it is. I have a feeling that if Bush/McCain did give Georgia a green light, that the Georgian President might turn on them and spill the beans. That might also be why he asked Biden to go there. If he felt betrayed by Bush/McCain, it might be to his benefit to reveal that.

If it was a set up, he would know it would hurt McCain to bring it to light, buying favor with Obama and possibly handing him the election. It would also not displease Russia that Georgia would basically be slapping Bush across the face. Bush isn't going to be around long anyway so Georgia really has no long term benefits to stay allied with him and they know McCain is against Russia, and bought and paid for with Randy S. running things.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3403 Michale Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:07:50 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3403 <I>I wasn't sneaking up on you! Honest - I thought you knew!</I> Just kidding. Yea, I did know, I just didn't make the connection at first. :D As to theory.. I have 2... One cynical, one probably accurate.. The cynical one is that Bush has inside intel that Biden is going to be Obama's pick for VP and is being "sent" by Bush (thru encouragement of the Georgia president by Bush) to mess things up for Obama. The probably accurate scenario is that things on the ground are bad and Bush needs someone who is honest and truthful and who will be believed by other Democrats. This way, when Bush has to push NATO involvement in Georgia, he will have a well-known Democrat backing him up. Michale..... I wasn't sneaking up on you! Honest - I thought you knew!

Just kidding. Yea, I did know, I just didn't make the connection at first. :D

As to theory..

I have 2... One cynical, one probably accurate..

The cynical one is that Bush has inside intel that Biden is going to be Obama's pick for VP and is being "sent" by Bush (thru encouragement of the Georgia president by Bush) to mess things up for Obama.

The probably accurate scenario is that things on the ground are bad and Bush needs someone who is honest and truthful and who will be believed by other Democrats. This way, when Bush has to push NATO involvement in Georgia, he will have a well-known Democrat backing him up.

Michale.....

]]> By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3402 Elizabeth Miller Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:22:01 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3402 Michale, I wasn't sneaking up on you! Honest - I thought you knew! As for your Biden note...please, you go first...I insist! Michale,

I wasn't sneaking up on you! Honest - I thought you knew!

As for your Biden note...please, you go first...I insist!

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3401 Michale Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:26:50 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3401 By the bi, what's with sneaking up on me over at HuffPo!?? :D Michale..... By the bi, what's with sneaking up on me over at HuffPo!?? :D

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3400 Michale Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:26:16 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3400 I'll show you mine if you show me yours... :^D Michale..... I'll show you mine if you show me yours... :^D

Michale.....

]]> By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3399 Elizabeth Miller Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:06:44 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3399 I do, too! I do, too!

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3397 Michale Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:44:18 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3397 Interesting Note about Biden.. The President Of Georgia has requested his presence IN Georgia.. Anyone have any theories as to why?? I do... Michale..... Interesting Note about Biden..

The President Of Georgia has requested his presence IN Georgia..

Anyone have any theories as to why??

I do...

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3396 Michale Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:28:59 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3396 The Obama camp seems to be making it a point that Wes Clark hasn't even been invited to the Denver Convention. My "dis-information" spidey sense is tingling... Michale..... The Obama camp seems to be making it a point that Wes Clark hasn't even been invited to the Denver Convention.

My "dis-information" spidey sense is tingling...

Michale.....

]]> By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3394 Elizabeth Miller Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:29:22 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3394 ...blood pressure is fine but situation remains critical... Seriously, all I can say is, thank God for bridges burned! Because if Hillary Clinton was being seriously considered for the VP slot or even a shoo-in for the job, then Senator Obama would not have had the opportunity to ask the best of the best. As I see it, Senator Biden will not only have Obama's back in the traditional "attack dog" role like no other candidate could - that's another term I hate...I'd like to know when, exactly, I became so hung up on words...I'm gonna revert back to my old self when this thing is all over! - but Senator Biden will exponentially increase the probability for a very successful Obama administration in ways other candidates could only imagine...if they were particularly creative, that is. ...blood pressure is fine but situation remains critical...

Seriously, all I can say is, thank God for bridges burned! Because if Hillary Clinton was being seriously considered for the VP slot or even a shoo-in for the job, then Senator Obama would not have had the opportunity to ask the best of the best.

As I see it, Senator Biden will not only have Obama's back in the traditional "attack dog" role like no other candidate could - that's another term I hate...I'd like to know when, exactly, I became so hung up on words...I'm gonna revert back to my old self when this thing is all over! - but Senator Biden will exponentially increase the probability for a very successful Obama administration in ways other candidates could only imagine...if they were particularly creative, that is.

]]> By: Chris Weigant http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3393 Chris Weigant Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:07:26 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3393 BLaws - I'm thinking you're probably right, for reason #3 alone... I just tossed Reed's name out there to see Elizabeth's blood pressure go up... Heh heh. Actually, it's your last paragraph which has me convinced that Biden would be the best choice. I've seen Bayh (yawn) and Sebelius (yawn) and Kane (yawn) speak recently, and Biden is definitely the best "attack dog" of the bunch. Since the veep's main job in the campaign is attack dog, I think he should get it for this reason alone. I would love to see Biden out there every day on the campaign trail, doing his imitation of a buzz saw on McCain/Whoever. I'm not kidding -- because Obama has put his campaign up on a pedestal, he really really needs a good attack dog to cover his back. Hillary Clinton could have performed this job admirably, if she had only done the math in April or May and dropped out -- she would have been a shoo-in for VP. But she's burned her bridges, so that's not going to happen now. -CW BLaws -

I'm thinking you're probably right, for reason #3 alone...

I just tossed Reed's name out there to see Elizabeth's blood pressure go up...

Heh heh.

Actually, it's your last paragraph which has me convinced that Biden would be the best choice. I've seen Bayh (yawn) and Sebelius (yawn) and Kane (yawn) speak recently, and Biden is definitely the best "attack dog" of the bunch. Since the veep's main job in the campaign is attack dog, I think he should get it for this reason alone. I would love to see Biden out there every day on the campaign trail, doing his imitation of a buzz saw on McCain/Whoever. I'm not kidding -- because Obama has put his campaign up on a pedestal, he really really needs a good attack dog to cover his back. Hillary Clinton could have performed this job admirably, if she had only done the math in April or May and dropped out -- she would have been a shoo-in for VP. But she's burned her bridges, so that's not going to happen now.

-CW

]]> By: BLaws http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3391 BLaws Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:48:21 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3391 I'm thinking it's Biden. I didn't until recently but I started to think about a few things: 1) From what I've heard Obama really likes him and they get along well. 2) Because of his age he'd probably not run for President after 8 years (He'd be 73), so neither would have to worry about that during a second term. They could govern to get things done without worry about fall out from decisions hurting the VP in 2016. 3) Biden has basically been silent for the last few weeks. When was Joe Biden ever silent for weeks? If he wasn't the pick I'd have expected him to be out pounding John McCain every day. In fact he was out there a lot ... right up until the VP selection committee got in full swing. Personally, I'd love to see Biden just for the entertainment value alone of him destroying Romney or Pawlenty in the VP debate. Pawlenty seems like a nice enough guy, but seeing Romney get his ass kicked would be just awesome to watch. I'm thinking it's Biden. I didn't until recently but I started to think about a few things:

1) From what I've heard Obama really likes him and they get along well.
2) Because of his age he'd probably not run for President after 8 years (He'd be 73), so neither would have to worry about that during a second term. They could govern to get things done without worry about fall out from decisions hurting the VP in 2016.
3) Biden has basically been silent for the last few weeks. When was Joe Biden ever silent for weeks? If he wasn't the pick I'd have expected him to be out pounding John McCain every day. In fact he was out there a lot ... right up until the VP selection committee got in full swing.

Personally, I'd love to see Biden just for the entertainment value alone of him destroying Romney or Pawlenty in the VP debate. Pawlenty seems like a nice enough guy, but seeing Romney get his ass kicked would be just awesome to watch.

]]> By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3390 Elizabeth Miller Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:43:01 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3390 ...and, one more thing...if Biden doesn't get the nod because of too much media attention, then someone is definitely going to have to shoot me! ...and, one more thing...if Biden doesn't get the nod because of too much media attention, then someone is definitely going to have to shoot me!

]]> By: Elizabeth Miller http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3389 Elizabeth Miller Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:41:13 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3389 CW, Oh, yeah...Jack Reed would be good...let's just say that you haven't met snarkiness yet... CW,

Oh, yeah...Jack Reed would be good...let's just say that you haven't met snarkiness yet...

]]> By: Chris Weigant http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3388 Chris Weigant Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:41:34 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3388 loslobo - On your VP comment... I tend to believe that whoever the media is focusing on is the LEAST likely to get it (Obama's campaign has proven masterful in their orchestration of leaks so far). This is why I first discounted Sebelius, then Kane, and then Bayh. But I'm currently wondering if Biden isn't also a stalking horse... and if it might not go to Jack Reed instead. Just wondering, that's all... -CW loslobo -

On your VP comment... I tend to believe that whoever the media is focusing on is the LEAST likely to get it (Obama's campaign has proven masterful in their orchestration of leaks so far). This is why I first discounted Sebelius, then Kane, and then Bayh. But I'm currently wondering if Biden isn't also a stalking horse... and if it might not go to Jack Reed instead.

Just wondering, that's all...

-CW

]]> By: loslobo http://www.chrisweigant.com/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-43-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3387 loslobo Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:24:35 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/08/15/friday-talking-points-42-and-the-gold-medal-for-snarkiness-goes-to/#comment-3387 Chris "NBC's coverage of the Olympics has so far been pretty dull" I take it you would rather see track and field?...Next week... Actually gymnastics is fascinating for a little while. Hey at least tonight there was some preseason football. No comment on the VP stakes? Enough has been said but no updates. Can you say J O E ... But I think you missed Obama's major (missed) opportunity this week...Georgia. One of Obama's greatest strength was apposing the Iraq war from the start. To not capitalize on McCain, Bush and Rice's hypocrisy is a true shame. You frame McCain with GW and the unbelievable condemnation of aggression, while totally ignoring GW's (heinous of all war crimes) war. McCain's own comments are laughable and should be repeated immensely. Plus you have to wonder if Georgia’s president was implied help through his surrogate by mentioning McCain. Talk about audacity.. Thanks always Chris

"NBC's coverage of the Olympics has so far been pretty dull" I take it you would rather see track and field?...Next week... Actually gymnastics is fascinating for a little while. Hey at least tonight there was some preseason football.

No comment on the VP stakes? Enough has been said but no updates. Can you say J O E ...

But I think you missed Obama's major (missed) opportunity this week...Georgia. One of Obama's greatest strength was apposing the Iraq war from the start. To not capitalize on McCain, Bush and Rice's hypocrisy is a true shame. You frame McCain with GW and the unbelievable condemnation of aggression, while totally ignoring GW's (heinous of all war crimes) war.
McCain's own comments are laughable and should be repeated immensely. Plus you have to wonder if Georgia’s president was implied help through his surrogate by mentioning McCain. Talk about audacity..

Thanks always

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