Comments on: Will Maliki Get The U.S. Out Of Iraq? http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/ Reality-based political commentary Thu, 30 Apr 2026 02:50:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-231 Michael Gass Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:27:30 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-231 Michale, WOW... how fast did it go from "NOTHING" to "err.. wait... I meant to say that only certain governments can use the term and errr... well"... Can't you even present an argument that YOU'LL stick to? And btw... since you put "new parameters" that a "corrupt" government can't decide who is/isn't a terrorist, how then do you explain Bush calling Iran a terrorist regime when it was BUSH who used OUR government to invade Iraq on LIES? Or... can I expect NEW parameters to your argument in the next response? Michale,

WOW... how fast did it go from "NOTHING" to "err.. wait... I meant to say that only certain governments can use the term and errr... well"...

Can't you even present an argument that YOU'LL stick to? And btw... since you put "new parameters" that a "corrupt" government can't decide who is/isn't a terrorist, how then do you explain Bush calling Iran a terrorist regime when it was BUSH who used OUR government to invade Iraq on LIES?

Or... can I expect NEW parameters to your argument in the next response?

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-221 Michale Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:19:01 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-221 One corrupt government labeling a group as "terrorists" doesn't MAKE the group terrorists.. It is the actions committed by the group that determines the label... So, this being the case, please detail (and citing your sources) the actions that you claim the Sons Of Liberty committed that would earn them the label of "terrorists"... I look forward to reading your response... Michale..... One corrupt government labeling a group as "terrorists" doesn't MAKE the group terrorists..

It is the actions committed by the group that determines the label...

So, this being the case, please detail (and citing your sources) the actions that you claim the Sons Of Liberty committed that would earn them the label of "terrorists"...

I look forward to reading your response...

Michale.....

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-220 Michael Gass Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:51:09 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-220 Michale, Uh huh... so if NOTHING justifies TERRORISM... when you moving out of the United States since you feel any act done in the past is justification to continue hating? When? Tomorrow? Because the Sons of Liberty... you know... OUR FOREFATHERS WHO SET THE EVENTS THAT LED TO REVOLUTION IN MOTION... were TERRORISTS in the eyes of the British. So, now we know you hate America, our forefathers, and think people should be able to change our regime anytime they wish, invade us... which puts you at risk... so when are you leaving? Michale,

Uh huh... so if NOTHING justifies TERRORISM... when you moving out of the United States since you feel any act done in the past is justification to continue hating? When? Tomorrow?

Because the Sons of Liberty... you know... OUR FOREFATHERS WHO SET THE EVENTS THAT LED TO REVOLUTION IN MOTION... were TERRORISTS in the eyes of the British.

So, now we know you hate America, our forefathers, and think people should be able to change our regime anytime they wish, invade us... which puts you at risk... so when are you leaving?

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-218 Michale Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:37:07 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-218 Let me be perfectly clear about this.... NOTHING justifies terrorism... Even the commission of terrorism doesn't justify terrorism in response.. The adage that "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is just so much bullshit.... NOTHING justifies terrorism... ANY good or noble aspect that ANY cause may have is completely and 100% negated by the commission of an act of terrorism... NOTHING justifies terrorism... It's really THAT simple..... Michale..... Let me be perfectly clear about this....

NOTHING justifies terrorism...

Even the commission of terrorism doesn't justify terrorism in response..

The adage that "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is just so much bullshit....

NOTHING justifies terrorism...

ANY good or noble aspect that ANY cause may have is completely and 100% negated by the commission of an act of terrorism...

NOTHING justifies terrorism...

It's really THAT simple.....

Michale.....

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-215 Michael Gass Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:01:37 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-215 Michale, Your "rational and logical" argument is that after living under a brutal dictator for 25 years, the Iranian's had no reason to take back their country and hold American's hostage in order to keep us from militarily invading them as they did so. And that because they did so, back in 1979 for christ's sake, we can, in 2002... 23 years later... still demonize them. Yeah... you are SO logical and rational!!! Michale,

Your "rational and logical" argument is that after living under a brutal dictator for 25 years, the Iranian's had no reason to take back their country and hold American's hostage in order to keep us from militarily invading them as they did so. And that because they did so, back in 1979 for christ's sake, we can, in 2002... 23 years later... still demonize them.

Yeah... you are SO logical and rational!!!

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-207 Michale Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:21:27 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-207 Iran hadn't done anything?? So, I guess that lil old Hostage thing where our citizens were held for over a year doesn't count in your eyes as "anything"?? You are clearly one of those "America Bashers" who feel that the US is responsible for every bad thing in this world and has never done a lick of good in it's entire history. Unfortunately, that is a completely untrue and irrational attitude. Even more unfortunate is that people with this attitude will not be swayed by logical and rational argument. So, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Michale..... Iran hadn't done anything??

So, I guess that lil old Hostage thing where our citizens were held for over a year doesn't count in your eyes as "anything"??

You are clearly one of those "America Bashers" who feel that the US is responsible for every bad thing in this world and has never done a lick of good in it's entire history.

Unfortunately, that is a completely untrue and irrational attitude. Even more unfortunate is that people with this attitude will not be swayed by logical and rational argument.

So, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Michale.....

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-206 Michael Gass Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:56:34 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-206 Michale, The world's "policeman"? Well... let us then how the "police", using the same actions of our government, would treat YOU. First, you would be accused of a crime you never committed with no real evidence and trumped up evidence that fails upon closer scrutiny. Next, you would have your house surrounded and told if you didn't give up the contraband you don't have, you will be shot on sight. Those are your choices; give up what you don't have, or, die. Then, you can't leave your house or you'll die, and you don't have the contraband you are accused of, so you are now in a no-win situation. All you can do is hunker down in your house and wait for the invasion you know is coming. And yes, it comes. Your front door is kicked in, your wife shot, kids taken into custody and then disappear, and you are arrested. You are then taken to a kangaroo court, found guilty with no evidence whatsoever, and executed. That is what our government did to Iraq as the "world's policeman". Iran hadn't even done anything when Bush labeled them an Axis of Evil. And here you are crying about how Iran's President THEN started making threats to the very powers who had ALREADY pulled a coup in their country ONCE, was OPENLY calling for regime change again, and had ALREADY threatened HIM? You need to get a grip on reality. When a cop pulls you over on the road and cusses at you, you don't like that. When a cop beats you for no reason, you sue for everything they and the city have got. You don't like police that do that to you... but you are cheerleading if we do it to someone else. In my world... that is called being a hypocrite. Michale,

The world's "policeman"?

Well... let us then how the "police", using the same actions of our government, would treat YOU.

First, you would be accused of a crime you never committed with no real evidence and trumped up evidence that fails upon closer scrutiny.

Next, you would have your house surrounded and told if you didn't give up the contraband you don't have, you will be shot on sight. Those are your choices; give up what you don't have, or, die.

Then, you can't leave your house or you'll die, and you don't have the contraband you are accused of, so you are now in a no-win situation. All you can do is hunker down in your house and wait for the invasion you know is coming.

And yes, it comes. Your front door is kicked in, your wife shot, kids taken into custody and then disappear, and you are arrested.

You are then taken to a kangaroo court, found guilty with no evidence whatsoever, and executed.

That is what our government did to Iraq as the "world's policeman".

Iran hadn't even done anything when Bush labeled them an Axis of Evil. And here you are crying about how Iran's President THEN started making threats to the very powers who had ALREADY pulled a coup in their country ONCE, was OPENLY calling for regime change again, and had ALREADY threatened HIM?

You need to get a grip on reality.

When a cop pulls you over on the road and cusses at you, you don't like that. When a cop beats you for no reason, you sue for everything they and the city have got. You don't like police that do that to you... but you are cheerleading if we do it to someone else.

In my world... that is called being a hypocrite.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-205 Michale Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:25:05 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-205 Michael, Before I even read your response, let me first apologize for using the term "ignorant".. It was uncalled for... As to your post, the simple fact is nuclear weapons in the hands of a religious fanatic is a recipe for disaster. Yes, I know that Bush has 'em to, but hay.. Whatcha gonna do?? As far as being a "threat", it's always the crooks and scumbags that consider the "cops" a "threat".. Like it or not, the United States is the world's policeman.. That's a simple fact of existence in today's world. If terrorists like Almajahenda (sp) and Chavez consider the US a "threat" then I think that is a GOOD thing... Michale..... Michael,

Before I even read your response, let me first apologize for using the term "ignorant".. It was uncalled for...

As to your post, the simple fact is nuclear weapons in the hands of a religious fanatic is a recipe for disaster. Yes, I know that Bush has 'em to, but hay.. Whatcha gonna do??

As far as being a "threat", it's always the crooks and scumbags that consider the "cops" a "threat"..

Like it or not, the United States is the world's policeman.. That's a simple fact of existence in today's world.

If terrorists like Almajahenda (sp) and Chavez consider the US a "threat" then I think that is a GOOD thing...

Michale.....

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-204 Michael Gass Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:19:32 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-204 Michale, What did the U.S. threaten Cuba with during the Cuban missile crisis? What did Russia threaten when they shot down our U2? What did Israel threaten Iraq with when Saddam launched Scud missiles at them? What did N. Korea threaten... and has never done? Don't give me BS... Don't give me fearmongering... MANY nuclear countries have "threatened" the very same thing... and only ONE has ever DONE it... US. It was the US that pulled the coup in Iran in 1953. It was the US that tried to coup Chavez. It was the US that coup'd Chile. It was the US that coup'd Guatamala. It was the US that intervened in Haiti REPEATEDLY. Quit telling me how much of a threat Iran is... and KNOW what a threat we HAVE been that is PROVEN. Michale,

What did the U.S. threaten Cuba with during the Cuban missile crisis?

What did Russia threaten when they shot down our U2?

What did Israel threaten Iraq with when Saddam launched Scud missiles at them?

What did N. Korea threaten... and has never done?

Don't give me BS...

Don't give me fearmongering...

MANY nuclear countries have "threatened" the very same thing... and only ONE has ever DONE it... US.

It was the US that pulled the coup in Iran in 1953. It was the US that tried to coup Chavez. It was the US that coup'd Chile. It was the US that coup'd Guatamala. It was the US that intervened in Haiti REPEATEDLY.

Quit telling me how much of a threat Iran is... and KNOW what a threat we HAVE been that is PROVEN.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-203 Michale Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:02:11 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-203 @Michael I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the "IRAN is all peace and love" side of things.. >Iran is ZERO threat. Yea... Tell that to Israel, who the Iranian president threatened to "wipe off the map"... Let me put it into a different context for you. You are a black man living on a street with your family... Your neighbor is a vulgar and bigoted redneck who has stated publicly that all colored people should be lined up against a wall and shot... But he has never attacked anyone to date... You now learn that your neighbor is putting together an arsenal of highly lethal weapons... Now, I ask you... Are you just going to sit there and let your neighbor compile all these lethal and offensive weapons, after he has publicly stated many times that he wants to wipe you and yours off the face of the map?? The fact that you claim IRAN is a "zero threat" simply shows that you have not grasp one of what the situation is in the Middle East... I am sure Austria and Poland made the same claim about ole Adolf Hitler in the mid 1930s... As far as your issue re: "It's all about Oil".... Well, no duh... Oil is the lifeblood of every civilization these days... Put it another way... If all the oxygen on the planet was generated from one or two specific locations on the planet, wouldn't you want to make sure that said oxygen would continue to flow without interruption??? Of course you would... If you think oil is not too important in your life, try living for a DAY without it.. I bet you that you can't.... Michale..... @Michael

I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the "IRAN is all peace and love" side of things..

>Iran is ZERO threat.

Yea... Tell that to Israel, who the Iranian president threatened to "wipe off the map"...

Let me put it into a different context for you.

You are a black man living on a street with your family... Your neighbor is a vulgar and bigoted redneck who has stated publicly that all colored people should be lined up against a wall and shot...
But he has never attacked anyone to date...

You now learn that your neighbor is putting together an arsenal of highly lethal weapons...

Now, I ask you...

Are you just going to sit there and let your neighbor compile all these lethal and offensive weapons, after he has publicly stated many times that he wants to wipe you and yours off the face of the map??

The fact that you claim IRAN is a "zero threat" simply shows that you have not grasp one of what the situation is in the Middle East...

I am sure Austria and Poland made the same claim about ole Adolf Hitler in the mid 1930s...

As far as your issue re: "It's all about Oil"....

Well, no duh... Oil is the lifeblood of every civilization these days...

Put it another way... If all the oxygen on the planet was generated from one or two specific locations on the planet, wouldn't you want to make sure that said oxygen would continue to flow without interruption??? Of course you would...

If you think oil is not too important in your life, try living for a DAY without it.. I bet you that you can't....

Michale.....

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-202 Michael Gass Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:45:07 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-202 Chris, This was a war of resource; oil. Now, figure that we have already hit peak oil. Bush/Cheney would have known this from the time they hit office (again, go back to the Energy Task Force)... and the Middle East is the single biggest oil concentration. Remember when we tried to coup Chavez? The oil companies trying to get into the Caspian Sea reserves? The oil companies moving into Africa? What do you think is going to happen when... not if... WHEN... we have our bases in the Middle East, oil is $6 a gallon in the U.S., and Europe, Russia, and the rest of the world can't even afford it? When Russia and China need that oil and we have it under our thumb? We can predict WWIII based on that alone... Chris,

This was a war of resource; oil.

Now, figure that we have already hit peak oil. Bush/Cheney would have known this from the time they hit office (again, go back to the Energy Task Force)... and the Middle East is the single biggest oil concentration.

Remember when we tried to coup Chavez? The oil companies trying to get into the Caspian Sea reserves? The oil companies moving into Africa?

What do you think is going to happen when... not if... WHEN... we have our bases in the Middle East, oil is $6 a gallon in the U.S., and Europe, Russia, and the rest of the world can't even afford it? When Russia and China need that oil and we have it under our thumb?

We can predict WWIII based on that alone...

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-201 Michael Gass Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:40:37 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-201 Michale, Iran has not attacked anyone since the Iraq-Iran war... and even then, that was a war based on border dispute. Why people believe Iran is going to unilaterally go after the world if they get the bomb is beyond me. They have threatened what every other nuclear country has threatened... RETALIATION... ie... DETERRENCE. Iran is ZERO threat. Michale,

Iran has not attacked anyone since the Iraq-Iran war... and even then, that was a war based on border dispute. Why people believe Iran is going to unilaterally go after the world if they get the bomb is beyond me.

They have threatened what every other nuclear country has threatened... RETALIATION... ie... DETERRENCE.

Iran is ZERO threat.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-199 Michale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:54:59 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-199 Yes, it's true.. You can paint a very logical and very horrifying scenario if the US attacks Iran.. But I can paint an EQUALLY logical and MUCH MORE horrifying scenario with a nuclear-armed Iran.. This is very clearly a choice between the lesser of two evils... Michale..... Yes, it's true.. You can paint a very logical and very horrifying scenario if the US attacks Iran..

But I can paint an EQUALLY logical and MUCH MORE horrifying scenario with a nuclear-armed Iran..

This is very clearly a choice between the lesser of two evils...

Michale.....

]]> By: Chris Weigant http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-198 Chris Weigant Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:17:55 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-198 Michael Gass - Actually, to tell you the truth, your whole post scared the hell out of me. I sincerely hope you're wrong, especially at the end, but the logic of your argument is compelling. Even if it's not actually WWIII, we still could see $10 for a gallon of gas in this country if things deteriorate further in the Middle East (and especially if Darth Cheney attacks Iran). For everyone, what Michale is referring to in his posts is the fact that there's a Senate rule which says something along the lines of: "If the Majority Leader (or maybe it's the 'sponsor of the bill', sorry, I'm doing this from memory) votes against a cloture motion which fails to get 60 votes, then he can bring it back up for a vote later on. If, however, he votes FOR cloture when it doesn't get 60 votes, then he can't ever bring it back up for vote again." Yeah, the Senate has some crazy rules, it is true. -CW Michael Gass -

Actually, to tell you the truth, your whole post scared the hell out of me. I sincerely hope you're wrong, especially at the end, but the logic of your argument is compelling. Even if it's not actually WWIII, we still could see $10 for a gallon of gas in this country if things deteriorate further in the Middle East (and especially if Darth Cheney attacks Iran).

For everyone, what Michale is referring to in his posts is the fact that there's a Senate rule which says something along the lines of: "If the Majority Leader (or maybe it's the 'sponsor of the bill', sorry, I'm doing this from memory) votes against a cloture motion which fails to get 60 votes, then he can bring it back up for a vote later on. If, however, he votes FOR cloture when it doesn't get 60 votes, then he can't ever bring it back up for vote again."

Yeah, the Senate has some crazy rules, it is true.

-CW

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-196 Michale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:08:54 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-196 Disregard last... What a crazy system we have where you have to vote AGAINST a bill now so you can vote FOR the bill later.. :^/ Michale..... Disregard last...

What a crazy system we have where you have to vote AGAINST a bill now so you can vote FOR the bill later.. :^/

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-194 Michale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:24:34 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-194 Under the WTF heading.... IRAQ WITHDRAWAL BILL Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---52 ==================================== Akaka (D-HI) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Byrd (D-WV) Cantwell (D-WA) Cardin (D-MD) Carper (D-DE) Casey (D-PA) Clinton (D-NY) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Dodd (D-CT) Dorgan (D-ND) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA) Hagel (R-NE) Harkin (D-IA) Inouye (D-HI) Kennedy (D-MA) Kerry (D-MA) Klobuchar (D-MN) Kohl (D-WI) Landrieu (D-LA) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lincoln (D-AR) McCaskill (D-MO) Menendez (D-NJ) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Obama (D-IL) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI) Rockefeller (D-WV) Salazar (D-CO) Sanders (I-VT) Schumer (D-NY) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Stabenow (D-MI) Tester (D-MT) Webb (D-VA) Whitehouse (D-RI) Wyden (D-OR) NAYs ---47 ======================== Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Barrasso (R-WY) Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY) Burr (R-NC) Chambliss (R-GA) Coburn (R-OK) Cochran (R-MS) Coleman (R-MN) Corker (R-TN) Cornyn (R-TX) Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Dole (R-NC) Domenici (R-NM) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Isakson (R-GA) Kyl (R-AZ) Lieberman (ID-CT) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Reid (D-NV) Roberts (R-KS) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH) Thune (R-SD) Vitter (R-LA) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA) Notice something funny???? The **ONLY** Democratic Senator to vote NAY was none other than Harry Reid... Michale..... Under the WTF heading....

IRAQ WITHDRAWAL BILL

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---52
====================================
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---47
========================
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

Notice something funny????

The **ONLY** Democratic Senator to vote NAY was none other than Harry Reid...

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-193 Michale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:13:10 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-193 The Iraq Withdrawal Bill has been scuttled: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QF34Q80&show_article=1 Michale..... The Iraq Withdrawal Bill has been scuttled:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QF34Q80&show_article=1

Michale.....

]]> By: Michael Gass http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-192 Michael Gass Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:09:32 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-192 Chris, Here is my take on it: 1) Bush is NOT leaving Iraq no matter who calls for withdrawal. It is not going to happen, UNLESS, the Hydrocarbon Law AND SOFA agreements get signed. Then, and only then, will Bush let our military leave. I've said it for how long now? Those two items were *the* primary factor for the war in Iraq and the evidence, while not "conclusive", cannot be dismissed (see the fact that during Cheney's Secret Energy Meetings they had maps of Iraqi oil fields). 2) Right now, we are basically arming *every* faction, Sunni, Shi'ite AND Kurd. I brought this point out in my Daily Kos diary; we are playing every side against the middle, just as we did in the Iraq-Iran war. Why? Simple... chaos in Iraq gives us the *cover* to stay UNTIL those two above items get signed AND keeps EVERYONE too weak to fight our occupation both militarily and politically. 3) The Iraqi's would *love* us to leave. However, as I've pointed out, Maliki has zero power, zero control, and zero say. Gen. McCaffery's after-action report is quite clear on this matter; Maliki is a puppet figurehead who is at best not trusted, and at the worst, hated, by every faction in Iraq... except... the United States who put him in power. My #1 question still remains; who were the people that INITIALLY bombed the mosque? Consider Sunni's and Shia's were marrying each other before the invasion, and a power vacuum wouldn't have disintegrated THAT quickly between them on its own. So, take your pick; Kurds, CIA, (insert your clandestine group here). 4) The ONLY resort Bush has left is to keep us in Iraq until 2009 and HOPE he gets his two pieces of paper before he leaves office. Even if he doesn't, you can best your last dollar the next President, no matter what Party they belong to, will push for those same two pieces of paper. America has tried to get these since the 1950's and since Bush decided to invade, the chance to actually have them is too good to pass up for ANY President now that we are actually there. Conclusion... even in 2009... we aren't leaving Iraq. If we left, the ruling clerics would step in, just as they had to in Iran in 1979, to stop the violence, chaos, and restore order. The Iraqi Parliament would likely disband, though, they may go to an Iran model with a President figurehead... and we just aren't going to allow that to happen. But that isn't what should scare the h*ll out of you. As the Middle East goes further into chaos (especially if we attack Iran), the new cold war starting with Russia (who will back the Middle East when push comes to shove, btw), and China owning most of our debt... WWIII is now, once again, becoming a viable fear. Chris,

Here is my take on it:

1) Bush is NOT leaving Iraq no matter who calls for withdrawal. It is not going to happen, UNLESS, the Hydrocarbon Law AND SOFA agreements get signed. Then, and only then, will Bush let our military leave. I've said it for how long now? Those two items were *the* primary factor for the war in Iraq and the evidence, while not "conclusive", cannot be dismissed (see the fact that during Cheney's Secret Energy Meetings they had maps of Iraqi oil fields).

2) Right now, we are basically arming *every* faction, Sunni, Shi'ite AND Kurd. I brought this point out in my Daily Kos diary; we are playing every side against the middle, just as we did in the Iraq-Iran war. Why? Simple... chaos in Iraq gives us the *cover* to stay UNTIL those two above items get signed AND keeps EVERYONE too weak to fight our occupation both militarily and politically.

3) The Iraqi's would *love* us to leave. However, as I've pointed out, Maliki has zero power, zero control, and zero say. Gen. McCaffery's after-action report is quite clear on this matter; Maliki is a puppet figurehead who is at best not trusted, and at the worst, hated, by every faction in Iraq... except... the United States who put him in power. My #1 question still remains; who were the people that INITIALLY bombed the mosque? Consider Sunni's and Shia's were marrying each other before the invasion, and a power vacuum wouldn't have disintegrated THAT quickly between them on its own. So, take your pick; Kurds, CIA, (insert your clandestine group here).

4) The ONLY resort Bush has left is to keep us in Iraq until 2009 and HOPE he gets his two pieces of paper before he leaves office. Even if he doesn't, you can best your last dollar the next President, no matter what Party they belong to, will push for those same two pieces of paper. America has tried to get these since the 1950's and since Bush decided to invade, the chance to actually have them is too good to pass up for ANY President now that we are actually there. Conclusion... even in 2009... we aren't leaving Iraq. If we left, the ruling clerics would step in, just as they had to in Iran in 1979, to stop the violence, chaos, and restore order. The Iraqi Parliament would likely disband, though, they may go to an Iran model with a President figurehead... and we just aren't going to allow that to happen.

But that isn't what should scare the h*ll out of you. As the Middle East goes further into chaos (especially if we attack Iran), the new cold war starting with Russia (who will back the Middle East when push comes to shove, btw), and China owning most of our debt... WWIII is now, once again, becoming a viable fear.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-191 Michale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:47:22 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-191 Also, something else for you to consider.. The Senata "Pajama Party" is simply a facade so that Democrats can say, "Well, we tried" and then go back to their full funding and support of the Iraq War.. Michale.... Also, something else for you to consider..

The Senata "Pajama Party" is simply a facade so that Democrats can say, "Well, we tried" and then go back to their full funding and support of the Iraq War..

Michale....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-190 Michale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:30:30 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2007/07/18/will-maliki-get-the-us-out-of-iraq/#comment-190 >the spotlight on exactly who is >responsible for delaying the end >of the war — the Senate Republicans. I disagree, shock though it may be... :D The Democrats could have ended the war weeks ago by simply letting Bush's VETO stand.. While the Republicans surely do get the blame for the starting of this war, the blame for it's continuation completely and unequivocally lies with the Democrats.. They had the power to stop the war and they chose to continue it... Michale..... >the spotlight on exactly who is
>responsible for delaying the end
>of the war — the Senate Republicans.

I disagree, shock though it may be... :D

The Democrats could have ended the war weeks ago by simply letting Bush's VETO stand..

While the Republicans surely do get the blame for the starting of this war, the blame for it's continuation completely and unequivocally lies with the Democrats..

They had the power to stop the war and they chose to continue it...

Michale.....

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